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SECRET
POLICY COMMITTEE
Thursday, 19th September 1940.

Present:

Minister

Director-General

Sir Walter Monckton

Colonel Scorgie

Sir Maurice Peterson

Mr. Nicolson

Lord Davidson

Mr. Fraser

Sir Kenneth Clark

Mr. Tree

Mr. Peake

Mr. Macadam

Mr. Bamford

Mr. Harvey

Mr. Leigh Ashton

Mr. Beddington

Mr. Wellington

Mr. Gates

Mr. Ogilvie

Sir Stephen Tallents

Mr. J.B. Clark

Mr. Valentine Williams

Mr. Wiltshire )

Mr. Waddell )Secretaries

1. B.B.C. OVERSEAS SERVICES DEVELOPMENT .

Before commencing discussion on the paper which had been circulated, Mr. Ogilvie outlined the steps which had been taken by the B.B.C. to continue their services in the uncertain conditions caused by damage done to Broadcasting House and other B.B.C. premises in London. He explained that there were three lines of reserve at Maida Vale, Finchley, and Evesham. For a few days last week the Maida Vale premises were out of action, and at the beginning of this week part of Broadcasting House had to be evacuated. On Monday night the south side, and on Tuesday night the east side had to be emptied. The B.B.C. had been advised by the police on both occasions to leave the building, but had decided to stay. Arrangements had been made with the Ministry for a skeleton staff dealing with news to come to the Ministry and for certain staff to go to Maida Vale and Finchley. The intention would be at the worst to issue news bulletins and as much supporting programme material as possible from Maida Vale in English and in four foreign languages. It had been found that certain departments would have to be decentralised, and as regards the Overseas Services -

(a) the Latin American, Near Eastern, and Spanish and Portuguese Sections were being moved to Evesham: a step which would reduce the pressure of space in Broadcasting House and the associated buildings in London, and would also serve as a nucleus news staff in the event of broadcasting from London becoming impossible.

(b) the B. and D. Services to Europe, which had hitherto been split , would have to be amalgamated. So far, however, it had not been necessary to drop broadcasting in any of the languages, and it was hoped that no further cuts would be necessary.

Sir Stephen Tallents then outlined the ideas on which the paper had been based, and pointed out that much of the detail must now be regarded as academic in view of discussions the B. B. C. had been engaged in during the past day or two. There were, he said, three elements in the Estimate

(a) the expenditure already sanctioned and already put into effect. This should be put to the Treasury for approval.

(b) the Latin American and Arabic Services which, now being in the country and in a position to provide full programmes, would almost certainly need all the provision made for them in the Estimate.

(c) the Empire and European Services which he thought might be cut to the extent of 25% of the Estimate. He would hope that the measure of specialisation intended to commence on September 29th would be put into effect.

He suggested that in addition to the sums recommended in the Estimate, there should be some marginal sum available so that quick effect could be given to any emergency measure which had the Ministry's approval. Colonel Scorgie thought there should be no great difficulty at the present time in arranging for such a marginal sum.

Sir Maurice Peterson commented on the organisation of the Overseas Division in the B.B.C. and went on to make two points in connection with the emergency arrangements:

(1) He emphasised the difficulty in which the Ministry was put through being separated from the Sections of the B.B.C. which were going to Evesham.

(2) He mentioned that as from the previous day the B.B.C. were discontinuing their roneoed service of bulletins.

Mr. Valentine Williams expressed concern at the risk of stoppage in the specialisation of B.B.C. services, which he considered to be more than ever important at the present time, and supported Sir Maurice Peterson in asking that the service for duplication of bulletins should not be abandoned, until it became impossible to maintain it. He mentioned also the interest of the Service Departments in maintaining the force of our propaganda to Germany, and offered in this connection any help his organisation could provide (e.g. the making of recorded talks in the country).

In discussion on these points Colonel Scorgie emphasised that we must be prepared to put up with the inconvenience involved by present conditions. The Director-General suggested that the difficulty about duplication of bulletins might be surmounted by having the various sections of the Ministry listen in to those which particularly concerned them. This was not considered wholly satisfactory, partly owing to difficulties about language, and it was agreed that the B.B.C. should make every effort to maintain the service, although it was appreciated that for physical reasons it might not be possible to do so. Sir Maurice Peterson was to have a discussion with representatives of the B.B.C. with a view to making the best arrangements possible.

The Director-General agreed with Colonel Scorgie and emphasised that we must be prepared to contemplate the Ministry itself being put out of action, and that our plans must take as much account as possible of insurance considerations. We must try to make the fullest use of the new transmitters which were coming into service. Dispersal clearly meant a great deal of inconvenience, but it was a wiser policy than mere transference and duplication. The Minister agreed and said our policy must be to minimise the inconvenience. It was also agreed that in approaching the Treasury an attempt should be made to secure agreement to a block vote being allocated for Overseas development; a report to be called for monthly if desired on the expenditure of the vote. Referring to the paper, he considered that the present emergency should not be allowed to prejudice the main scheme, which the Committee might now approve. The Committee agreed that the paper might go forward, subject to amendment in the light of this discussion.

2. NON-THEATRICAL FIIM SCHEME.

Mr. Beddington said he had nothing to add to the paper which had been circulated. In reply to questions from the Minister, he said that the film trade were quite happy about the arrangements that it was hoped to bring the scheme into operation on October 2nd, and that arrangements were in hand for securing adequate press publicity for the scheme. Mr. Macadam said that from his point of view the revised scheme was very welcome. Apart from the saving of money, it would be an improvement not to have an outside contractor working in the territories of the various Regional Information Officers. The proposal was approved.

3. REQUEST FROM THE AIR MINISTRY THAT B.B.C. SUPPLY SKILLED MEN

(See Policy Committee Minutes, 12th September)

Mr. Ogilvie explained that the position in the B.B.C. at present was that they were 80 engineers short, instead of having some to spare. He was prepared to put about 30 engineers at the disposal of the Air Ministry, which would mean that the B.B.C. would be 130 short. One difficulty would be that he had no powers to compel engineers to take up Air Ministry work, but he would circularise them and make every effort to secure the necessary number of volunteers. A large measure of overtime would have to be worked by the B.B.C. staff.

The Minister referred to correspondence he had had with Sir Archibald Sinclair welcoming any assistance which the B.B.C. might be able to give, a joint training scheme could be considered. Mr. Ogilvie said every effort would be made to get the 130 or so engineers required to fill the gaps in the B.B.C. staff and even to secure a surplus. He was anxious to emphasise the difficulty in which the B.B.C. had been put on several occasions since the beginning of the war through being asked to supply staff at very short notice. If any further staff were required in the near future, they could only be supplied by such drastic measures as closing down transmitters.

4. OTHER BUSINESS.

Colonel Scorgie referred to discussions which had taken place about B.B.C. use of recordings. The emergency contemplated in these discussions had been the putting out of action of the “live” studio performance mechanism of the B.B.C. but it would be possible to make the order if “hostile operations in Great Britain” were considered to justify it. Owing to temporary conditions it would be possible to make an Order during the coming week but the opportunity would not arise again for a further three weeks. The B.B.C. felt it difficult to say whether the Order was yet strictly necessary; at any rate it might be undesirable to make it if any publicity were attached to it. The Minister thought it inadvisable to court publicity for a measure indicating special emergency at this moment, more especially as it was probable that if a real emergency arose the Order could be made quickly. Alternatively it might even be necessary for the B.B.C. to use recordings before the position was regularised by the Order and to seek protection afterwards. This should be regarded as a possible course in the circumstances.