371

See Reg
POLICY COMMITTEE.
Thursday, November 21st, 1940.

PRESENT:

Minister

D.G.

D.D.G.

Secretary

P.S.

Sir Maurice Peterson

Lord Davidson

Sir Kenneth Clark

Mr. Bamford

Mr. Fraser

Mr. Wellington

Mr. Peake

Mr. Tree

Mr. Gates

Mr. Ogilvie

Mr. Valentine Williams

Mr. Waddell (Secretary)

1. ORGANISATION OF THE MINISTRY .

The D.G. explained that the memorandum. which had been circulated had been agreed in discussion at Meetings of the Principal Officers Committee. It was now submitted to the Policy Committee for consideration. He hoped later to put forward a further memorandum on the Regional Organisation.

The Minister said that having regard to his experience in other departments (the Foreign Office, the Treasury, the Admiralty and the War Office) he had on examining the scheme of organisation questioned whether there might not be too much work coming directly under the Director General. He mentioned that the idea of a Board as in the Admiralty and the War Office organisation had occurred to him and he thought it might be more suitable for a Department of the size of the Ministry. The D.G. said he could hardly be a satisfactory judge on whether he could himself deal with the work but he had taken up his appointment with the intention of being effectively in charge of the Ministry and he felt himself obliged to have a general knowledge of all the work the Ministry was engaged upon. He felt that anything in the nature of a bottle neck would be very undesirable and would not wish to stand in the way of Controllers and Principal Assistant Secretaries consulting the Minister or being consulted by him, though he would expect to be informed of any decisions that were reached.

[Extracted to A/529]

Lord Davidson said that he doubted whether in fact all the detail the Director General would need to keep under his control could be dealt with by 372 -2-one person, and he referred again to the Minister's mention of organisation under a Board. He felt this would have the virtue that the Minister and D.G. would both be kept fully informed and that the junior staff could be kept more closely in touch with developments of policy than they had been in the past. He referred to a recent instance in which he felt that organisation under a Board might have ensured consultation within the Ministry, which had not taken place. The D.G. said that there ought to be no difficulty in bringing before the Policy Committee matters on which general guidance was required and added that although the Planning Committees, to which Lord Davidson had drawn attention, were necessarily influenced considerably by questions of finance he could not agree that they did not concern themselves with planning.

The Secretary said that although he and the D.G. had agreed on various matters of detail in the memorandum, he still had a fundamental difference of opinion in which his position was similar to the suggestion thrown out by the Minister and urged by Lord Davidson. He emphasised that he did not wish financial control to become an instrument of policy and would propose to avoid making it so, but did feel strongly the need for minor matters to be settled at a lower level than they tended to be. The Minister suggested that in this respect there was not any great difference in principle between the D.G. and the Secretary since it was clear that minor matters must, in fact, generally be settled by junior officers, though it was clearly the business of the D.G. to draw attention to any such matter which he observed was not being handled properly. As he saw the matter, the only alternative to centralisation under the D.G. was to have a Board of four or five senior officers reporting directly to the Minister. He agreed with the point made by the Parliamentary Secretary that the work of the Ministry demanded very careful execution in detail, which made it more than ordinarily difficult to relieve the burden on a Director General and he sympathised with Mr. Nicolson's distrust of rigid constitutions.

The Parliamentary Secretary made the further points: (a) that the Ministry appeared to be growing rather than diminishing and drew attention, in this connection, to the growth of the Public Relations Department (b) that insufficient emphasis was given to the Foreign side in the memorandum. On this point Mr. Peake remarked that he had not been given a clear place in the organisation and the D.G. promised that he would discuss further with the D.D.G. what should be Mr. Peake's proper status. The Secretary remarked on point (a) that in his experience the Public Relations Department, under Mr. Fraser, had been working very satisfactorily, but he questioned whether there was a need for a big Public Relations Department in a Ministry whose proper business was, in a sense, to be the Government's Public Relations Department. The Minister pointed out however that though the arrangement might be illogical, he felt that the test should be whether it worked well. 373 -3-Within the last few months there had been a considerable improvement in the Ministry's relations with the Press and the Public. There was a point which would be cleared up when the chart of organisation was finally settled concerning the relationship between the D.D.G. and the Controller of Public Relations.

The Minister directed that the memorandum should be considered again by the Policy Committee after six weeks and it should then be decided how far alteration was necessary. In answer to Mr. Bamford he said that the memorandum might now be given to the Select Committee as the general outline of the Ministry's organisation. Directors should be instructed to proceed with the setting up of the particular parts of the organisation with which they were concerned.

2. POSTER PROGRAMME.

Sir Kenneth Clerk said that the paper which had been put forward to the Committee explained the conclusions of a Sub-Committee which had been ratified by the Planning Committee. He thought it would be possible to raise considerably the standard of the Ministry's poster work. In answer to questions by the Minister it was explained that the need to keep poster sites filled with new and interesting material was the reason for suggesting the general rule that a poster should be prepared each month. It was intended that a small stock of ideas about posters and roughs should be kept on hand so that if an item should be below standard a better one might be substituted. A plan for the future was essential and it was hoped that in carrying it out the Ministry would have the assistance of a new officer at present in charge of ‘Shell’ poster work.

The D.G. explained that the programme now put forward was in the main a systemisation and not an expansion. About one-half of the expenditure suggested would be allocated to specific purposes for campaigns on behalf of other Departments. The other half would be for the Ministry's own purposes. He had had in mind that the Ministry would take some account of the charitable appeal which would be appropriate over Christmas, then of the need to stimulate hope in the early Spring and then perhaps encourage the evacuation of children to the country in the early summer. He explained the intention which underlay the poster of the Sohutz-mantel Madonna which was proposed for Christmas and the Minister said he would like to see this poster before it was issued. Sir Kenneth Clark agreed to send it to him.

[Extracted to GP/76]